The committee met at 6:48 p.m.

[M. Starchuk in the chair.]

M. Starchuk (Chair): Good evening, everyone. My name is Mike Starchuk. I'm the MLA for Surrey-Cloverdale and the chair of the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services.

I'd like to acknowledge that we're meeting today on the legislative precinct here in Victoria, which is located on the territory of the lək̓ʷəŋən-speaking peoples, known as the Songhees and the Esquimalt Nations.

Tonight we'll begin our meeting in the in-camera portion, following which we'll be hearing supplementary funding requests from the Office of the Police Complaint Commissioner and the Office of Information and Privacy Commissioner.

A motion to go in camera.

Motion approved.

The committee continued in camera from 6:49 p.m. to 7:13 p.m.

[M. Starchuk in the chair.]

M. Starchuk (Chair): We'll take a short recess to set the room.

The committee recessed from 7:13 p.m. to 7:16 p.m.

The committee recessed from 7:13 p.m. to 7:16 p.m.

M. Starchuk (Chair): All right, everyone. We're going to call the meeting back to order. Now we're going to hear supplementing funding requests from the Office of the Police Complaint Commissioner. We've set aside, Prabhu, ten minutes for your presentation followed by up to 20 minutes for committee questions. The floor is yours.

P. Rajan: Thank you very much. Good evening, Chair, Deputy Chair and members of the committee.

I would like to first acknowledge that the work of our office extends across the homelands of the Indigenous peoples and express gratefulness that our office is found on the unceded traditional lands of the lək̓ʷəŋən people, also known as the Songhees and Esquimalt First Nations communities. I also affirm that colonialism and the attitudes and practices that have accompanied it have had and continue to have harmful effects on Indigenous peoples.

I'm honoured to once more represent my office and our committed and hard-working staff before this committee. I'm again excellently supported by Deputy Commissioner Andrea Spindler and Dave Van Swieten, deputy corporate shared services. I thank the committee for granting me additional time to present our supplementary budget request. Should our request be approved, it will allow my office to deliver on new legislative obligations that the Legislature has now required with the passing of Bill 17 on April 25.

When we appeared before you in October of last year, we were not aware of the specific changes that would be passed by the Legislature. I believe our budget request is an investment in civilian oversight. This is a view consistent with not only the 2019 and '22 all-party special committee reports but also with the Legislature's amendments to the Police Act.

We will do our best to absorb the impact of some of the changes, but a similar absorption in the areas I will describe will not be possible without the committee's support. I will set out why I believe that our request is modest and, if granted, will add tremendous value to strengthen confidence in policing.

We are asking for the following this fiscal year: $1.235 million in operating funding and $709,000 in capital funding. Our request seeks to fund seven permanent full-time-equivalent positions, and this is necessitated by new legislated obligations, workload pressures, Lower Mainland space and a mandatory salary increase following the government's acceptance of the Judicial Compensation Committee's recommendations. Since we would not be able to onboard people immediately, we are asking, on average, for half a year of funding for the increase in FTEs.

My request is primarily based on a shifting legislative and financial landscape, but it also contemplates my own vision for achieving greater accessibility, efficiencies and improvements in public trust in the system and policing. My request associated with the legislative amendments expanding the OPCC's mandate and authority is $716,000 in operating costs and $10,000 in capital to fund five permanent positions.

[7:20 p.m.]

There are many changes to the Police Act that will directly and immediately impact our work. I believe that these changes will improve policing oversight, and my office is committed to delivering on these enhancements. But without the resources requested, we will not be able to give effect to the Legislature's intent and direction. We need to add organizational capacity to design and prepare our office for

I believe that these changes will improve policing oversight, and my office is committed to delivering on these enhancements. But without the resources requested, we will not be able to give effect to the Legislature's intent and direction.

We need to add organizational capacity to design and prepare our office for systemic investigations, a brand-new program. We have to be able to hit the ground running when it comes into effect.

In my career, I've been intimately involved in systemic investigations. I know how much work is required to do this effectively. I also know how impactful dealing with issues at a systemic level can cause broader, meaningful change. If successful, systemic investigations under the Police Act can reduce the overall incidence of misconduct, improve police culture, reduce repeat complaints, and generally provide more trust in policing.

We also need capacity to provide critically important legal support to navigate the new initiatives and more broadly assist with the complexities of our work.

We require capacity to support Indigenous-related efforts and build a new observer program that seeks to provide the community with more direct insight into the complaints process. And this would include contract costs to retain observers.

We need capacity to develop and provide education on new binding guidelines to address procedural gaps and inconsistent approaches in misconduct investigations.

In our next budget submission, we will be addressing how to respond to the outreach capacity needed to prepare for upcoming oversight over safety officers in detention facilities across the province. When that particular change is in effect, it would expand the scope of my office over non-police officers and to every holding cell in the province, including those under RCMP jurisdiction.

We also need increased adjudicative capacity. We expect more immediate and more future public hearings. Please note that we must not only fund our own counsel but also the costs associated with the retired judges and their counsel, public hearing counsel and other ancillary costs.

You can expect that I will return to you for further funding needs as we better appreciate the impact of the legislative changes and as new powers come into effect such as systemic investigations and oversight over detention guards.

My request to address workload and support capacity issues largely due to the Surrey police transition is $303,000 in operating costs and $4,000 in capital to fund two permanent positions. At our appearance before this committee in October of 2023, we were somewhat conservative in our request for resources to address Surrey. Former Commissioner Pecknold, correctly in my view, wanted to continue to monitor developments given the many uncertainties related to this transition. We now know that Surrey will officially be the police of jurisdiction as of November 29.

We also have updated metrics regarding the work created by the Surrey police service as set out in detail in our business case. Please keep in mind that our numbers regarding the Surrey projections are conservative. If we instead use Victoria or Abbotsford as comparators, our projected SPS numbers would have been up to twice as high. These numbers also don't take into account the possible growing pains of a new service or the effect greater outreach might have on quantity of complaints.

I thank the committee for your previous support in approving funding for three full-time-equivalent positions for '24-25 and two more for each of '25-26 and '26-27. Given the increasing numbers and growth of our staff, we need two more FTEs to add to our supervisory capacity, which will address span of control, mental health and wellness, and training needs for staff and other system actors considering the complexity of this legislation and the new changes.

Beyond Surrey, we also need capacity to enhance our ADR program which I highlighted on Thursday, and also to manage a likely increased workload due to additional police officers in Vancouver and the expansion of body-worn cameras.

My request associated with the Lower Mainland facility is $116,000 in supplemental operating funding and $695,000 in supplemental capital funding. I very much appreciate the committee's support for this space by previously approving $725,000 in capital. However, that estimate has been updated by real property division in the Ministry of Citizens' Services to $1.42 million dollars for '24. The 2022 estimate was conservative in that the space was slightly smaller and didn't allow for intake capacity. The '24 estimate considers optimizing geographical accessibility and intake capacity so we can deal directly with the public.

[7:25 p.m.]

The likelihood that further growth in my office will occur on the Mainland and a less conservative number given current market conditions that reflect our updated requirements. Therefore, some of the additional costs can be attributed to a more practical implementation of a Lower Mainland office in a way that will best serve the public. Please note that we have significantly scaled the project back from initial plans that would have included public hearing space.